Transcript: Archbishop Paul S. Coakley on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Dec. 21, 2025

The following is the transcript of the interview with Paul S. Coakley, President of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and Oklahoma City Archbishop, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Dec. 21, 2025.

MARGARET BRENNAN:  Father, I want to ask you about this role you have at the head of the conference of bishops. Last month, there was this urgent message. It was a very rare statement addressing concern for the evolving situation impacting migrants, and the language was pretty sharp in it. Quote, “We oppose the indiscriminate mass deportation of people. We pray for an end to dehumanizing rhetoric and violence, whether directed at immigrants or at law enforcement.” What are bishops that you talk to seeing in parishes all around the country? What triggered this?

ARCHBISHOP PAUL COAKLEY: I think it varies from place to place, for sure. So in communities with a more dense migrant population, there is a great deal of fear and uncertainty, anxiety because of the level of rhetoric that is- that is often employed when addressing issues around migration and the threats of deportation. So there’s a lot of anxiety, so our pastors are trying to accompany people, walk with people, reassure people, and that’s the message of the Church. And that was the reason for our special message in November, that we’re with you. We hear you, we’re aware of your suffering or your fears, and we fully intend to accompany you during this difficult time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So I know there have been bishops in places like Charlotte, in parts of California, who have formally granted permission, or dispensation is the word used, for people to skip Sunday mass if they’re afraid they could be targeted by ICE. Are you actually seeing a decline in the number of people attending mass because they’re afraid they’ll be arrested?

ARCHBISHOP PAUL COAKLEY: We’re not seeing that here in in Oklahoma. And I haven’t heard it reported widely from my brother bishops. So I know that that is the case in some, some places, but I don’t think it’s as common, at least here locally or in places that I have personal contact with. There’s a- there’s an anxiety, there’s a fear, but I don’t think it’s kept people away in great numbers.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this video that you released really got a lot of attention. It certainly got ours, and it mentioned being troubled by threats against the sanctity of houses of worship as well as hospitals and schools. You know, I spoke to the Vice President JD Vance last year and asked him about this change in policy that would allow for ICE to enter churches and schools. And he really pushed back hard. He says that the Catholic Church receives funds to help resettle immigrants. Thus they are motivated by financial and not humanitarian reasons. Have you had any kind of conversation with the Trump administration, with the Vice President to explain what it is you’re trying to say?

ARCHBISHOP PAUL COAKLEY: I have not had any personal conversations at this point with either the president or the vice president, so I look forward to engaging with them over matters of mutual concern, and certainly, undoubtedly the question of immigration is going to come up. I think we have opportunities to work together. We have opportunities to speak frankly with one another, so I will look forward to that in the near future. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well the Vice President calls himself a devout Catholic, which is also why I ask. I mean, do you- what do you say to Catholics like him who argue that these hard line immigration policies have had a result that they sought, that the end justifies the means.

ARCHBISHOP PAUL COAKLEY: I don’t think we can ever say that the end justifies the means. We have to treat everyone with respect, respect of the human dignity, dignity of every person. There is no conflict necessarily between advocating for safe and secure borders and treating people with respect and dignity. We always have to treat people with, with dignity, God-given dignity. The state doesn’t award it, and the state can’t take it away. So it’s, it’s from the Creator. So I think as Christians, as believers, we- that’s kind of a foundational bedrock thing for us, that people are to be respected and treated with dignity, whether they are documented or undocumented, whether they are here legally or illegally, they don’t forfeit their human dignity.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, what is it that you think is causing that to be an issue right now? Why do you think that there is a loss of dignity? Are there specific policies that you are thinking of when you say that?

ARCHBISHOP PAUL COAKLEY: Well, not necessarily. I mean, I- just to treat people with respect, to afford them due process. The deportations that are, that are happening around the country can- it’s instilling, as I said, fear in a rather widespread manner. So I think that’s, that’s something that concerns us all, that people have a- have a right to live in, in security and without fear of random and deportations. I think we’re believers, of course, in due process. We have provisions in law that award due process to, to everyone. So that’s what we are wanting to emphasize.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What would you advise others, other people of faith, to do for these immigrants?

ARCHBISHOP PAUL COAKLEY: Well, we are a nation of immigrants ourselves. So I think that’s something that we as Americans need to always come back to. We are founded upon the immigrant experience. So I think we need to be generous in welcoming immigrants. We certainly have a right and a duty to respect borders of our nation. And I would say, remind all of us that we have a right and a duty to respect sovereign borders of a state, but, but we also have a responsibility to welcome migrants. This is kind of a fundamental principle in, in Catholic social teaching regarding immigration and migration. People have a right to to remain in their homeland, but, but they also ought to be allowed to migrate when conditions in their homeland are unsafe and necessitate moving to a place where they can find peace and security.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Archbishop Paul Coakley of Oklahoma City, thank you for your time today. 

ARCHBISHOP COAKLEY: Thank you. Thank you very much.